|Below, I have reposted a detailed and important article - written by researcher Andrew Johnson. This article is important not only with regards to the ongoing study of the Starchild Skull, but also as a stark reminder of what unfortunately sometimes happens in multiple arenas of the realm of study of what is proverbially termed alternative knowledge research. My deepest appreciation to Andrew for taking the time to put together what must have been a difficult piece to write. What matters is that the evidence he has assembled appears to (sadly) speak for itself. This matter really does seem to echo what happened with aspects of the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement" / limited-hangout. Please take the time to read this valuable article and follow all the links (highlighted in blue text) to the evidential sources. Carl (The Truth Seeker's Guide.)|
The Starchild Project – Keeping the Record Straight
23 May 2017
For those people who don’t know about the so-called Starchild Skull, please watch this 17 minute fact-packed video.
I first learned about the so-called Starchild Skull in about 2003 and less than a year later, I met and befriended Lloyd Pye and helped him transfer some 35mm slides into a Powerpoint file. Over the next 9 years, we met many times and he came to stay at my house at least twice, when I organised talks for him in Nottingham (2009) and Derby (2012). Amazingly, he also attended at least 3 of my talks – in London (2005), Gravesend, UK (2012) and the same Derby event in 2012. In 2004, he visited me with Amy, whom he was later to marry, after they moved back to the USA in 2005.
Once again, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to document deeply troubling developments in a field of research. I will examine and unpick deeply troubling attempts to introduce doubt about the Starchild Skull and Lloyd Pye himself.
If you don’t want to read all of the text below, simply spend about 2 hours listening to these next 2 recordings. A comparison should clearly highlight the main problems which I attempt to analyse in detail below.
Melanie Young - The Starchild Skull - 2014 Border Zone UFO Conference – 40:53
Melanie Young, RN - 1/2 - The Starchild: DNA Testing and the Story Behind the Story – 62:15
Are the 2 presentations by the same person? Read on, if you wish.
Lloyd Pye – My Friend
Lloyd was a great friend with whom I was in regular contact and I was extremely upset to hear of his death from Lymphoma Cancer in Dec 2013. I still think of him daily. Lloyd was always generous with his time and his attention and, privately, he was also generous with his praise and gratitude for whatever assistance I and others gave him. In 2003, I knew that what he was doing was very important and we shared the common goal of revealing important truths and knowledge, of the type that many people didn’t want to hear or understand.
The last time I saw Lloyd was on 18 Sept 2013, when he showed me the Starchild Braincasts. At that time, he told me more about a new development with the Starchild project. Lloyd explained that some months previously, he had gone to see a business man, based in Tampa Florida, called Matthew Brownstein. Matthew was going to try and help Lloyd to develop skills for raising funds for the research into the Skull, as Lloyd felt he had not been very successful at this. Mr Brownstein himself became acutely interested in the skull and started to do his own research. At this time, Lloyd and others were attempting to raise further funds for ongoing DNA testing and analysis which, for the previous 3 years or so, had been undertaken on a voluntary basis by an anonymous geneticist in the USA. The geneticist had the permission of the company he was working for to do this research, but the company, too, wanted to remain anonymous at that time.
At our last meeting, in Sept 2013, Lloyd explained to me that Matthew Brownstein, following his own research, proposed that they form an agreement and a company as a vehicle for furthering the goals of the Starchild Project. Although Lloyd didn’t go into minute detail about the agreement, he did tell me of the formation of an agreement between himself, Amy (his ex-wife), Ray and Melanie Young and Matthew Brownstein. The reasons I am explaining this will become clear below.
I find this whole article difficult to write because I have to write about 2 people whom I thought would share the same goals as Lloyd and myself – to talk about evidence and reveal truths. However, the statements documented below essentially prove they now want to insert doubt and/or attempt to discredit years of research for which many sacrifices were made.
The So-called “Veritas” Show
Some readers will know of a subscription-based podcast/internet radio talk show called The Veritas Show which has been “on the web” since 2009, with all shows hosted by Mel Fabregas. He set up the show following his discovery of the Milton Torres UFO-shootdown case and his wish to interview Torres. As a previous guest on the programme myself (in 2010 and 2016), I did consider contacting Mel Fabregas before posting this article, but decided against doing so, due to the extreme nature of the statements which I have documented below. I suppose I will just have to resign myself to the possibility that Mel Fabregas will post an hour-long tirade against me, as Henrik Palmgren of Red Ice radio chose to do in 2013, when I posted a similar critique of his failure to point out errors in statements guests were making about 911 evidence. Or, maybe Mel Fabregas will “do the right thing” and include an update on his website, pointing out the errors and false statements made in the interview which I am analysing here.
I had a high regard for Mel Fabregas, not only because of his support for Dr Judy Wood’s research and the fact that he has interviewed her several times, but also because he was a friendly chap who seemed to be trying to “do the right thing”. He had featured a number of interesting guests on his programme. Perhaps things began to change for Mel Fabregas around the time he began to entertain the idea of a flat earth. To anyone who can observe reality for themselves and do some basic calculations, hosting a programme like this is little different to hosting a programme about the theory that 2+2 might actually be equal to 5. Something has definitely changed for Mr Fabregas - I found this May 2017 interview to be deeply upsetting and troubling.
“Veritas” and The Starchild: DNA Testing and the Story Behind the Story
On 19 May 2017, I received a Veritas email update announcing the interview with Starchild Skull Owner Melanie young. The description seemed to have some slight errors, so I was already slightly troubled. That is, it said
This was information that I remembered being correct in 2003, but later testing revealed a rather more complex situation. Why didn’t Melanie Young, owner of the skull, know this?
I knew that there had been some disagreements within the Starchild Project since 2016, because I had seen the creation of Melanie Young’s own “Starchild” website – which was rather peculiar. I had also briefly corresponded with Amy Vickers – another key member of the Starchild Project Team - about the situation. During the “Veritas” show, the troubling picture became clearer.
I spent quite some time carefully listening to the interview and transcribed parts of it (timings given below are approximate). This was an uncomfortable process, knowing what I know about Lloyd Pye and the Starchild Skull Evidence. (I have recently started to give talks about the Skull, because I had copies of most of the slides Lloyd Pye used in his talks. I had these copies because I helped Lloyd on several occasions and hosted talks by him, as mentioned above.)
The interview runs for just over 2 hours, but the 2nd hour is only available to subscribers (which is kind of ironic, as you will read, below). A friend kindly donated a 3-month Veritas subscription to me, which enabled me to listen to the 2nd hour. In my analysis below, I will be “jumping around” a little, across the 2 hours, in order to point out some problems/errors I found. If you’re going to accuse me of cherry-picking statements etc, you’re going to have to listen to the whole thing, aren’t you?
Melanie Young, Who’s She?
As mentioned above, Melanie Young owns the Starchild Skull - she had met with Lloyd Pye in 1999 and handed over the unusual skull to him, because of his expertise in hominoids. Young confirms this account in the first hour. She also states she is a UFO/Abduction experiencer – even to the point of stating she has had “hybrid alien children.” She herself acknowledges that because of this, some people do question her sanity (but I, personally, do not judge her on this issue – as there are others who have described very similar and deeply troubling experiences).
You can listen to the first hour of the interview here:
Young and Fabregas discuss the story of the Skull and at 1:58 into the interview Mel Fabregas says:
The way that Mel Fabregas said this was odd to me - as if he was trying to say that Lloyd Pye had tried to keep Melanie’s identity a secret. This seemed to be confirmed by the discussion which took place at about 28:23.
Before dealing with this remark, I will make one comment on what she said after the above:
This is a direct attack on Lloyd Pye’s reputation and is clearly meant to insert doubt. Listeners can make up their own minds as to whether they think that Mel Fabregas, champion of Veritas, challenges these statements in any way – or comes up with any of the points of rebuttal to what Melanie Young says. There are some points that Young makes that Mr Fabregas should have known were wrong/untrue/misleading. Please read on.
[EDIT: 25 May 2017 - I noted that Melanie said "I came on the scene about a year ago". She was giving public talks in 2014 and 2015 - she didn't just start doing this in 2016. However, 2016 is when Chase Kloetzke came on the scene. Is this a "different Melanie" talking, then, do you think?]
The theme of Melanie Young being marginalised was revisited in the 2nd hour when she said, regarding Matthew Brownstein:
The overriding impression I got is that Melanie Young was trying to say that the other members of the Starchild Project team (including Lloyd Pye) had tried to minimise and downplay her role and take away attention from her. What was really galling is that I knew Lloyd Pye had never done this and, when given the time, he had always clearly stated that Ray and Melanie Young were the owners of the skull. He said this at least in 2007 (3 mins 50 into this interview with the Paracast), 2008 (10 mins in) and 2009 – at the Nottingham Presentation I organised and recorded – note the photo on the screen (approx 9 mins 42 in). Interested people can find many many more examples of Lloyd Pye’s interviews where he mentions her name. For Mel Fabregas not to know her name in relation to the skull must mean that he hadn’t listened to the story of the skull very closely, or he had a poor memory or he was deliberately misleading people over this issue.
Similarly, the Starchild Project Website also showed (at least by 2009), who the owners of the skull were – here are links from the Internet Archive. Even the current Website makes this clear, though there isn’t a photograph of the owners.
Going back to Melanie Young’s abduction experiences, at 25:00 in hour one, she stated:
Though Lloyd Pye may have said this to Melanie in 1999, or thereabouts, Lloyd had clearly changed his mind on this sort of issue 4 years later – when he was openly discussing a possible connection between the Skull and Alien Abduction experiences at some of his lectures. He was still discussing these issues in 2009. (As we shall see later, he was less inclined to include this material in his lectures from 2010 onwards.)
In parallel with furthering the research goals of the Starchild Project, Lloyd Pye had discussed other aspects of his research which seem to indicate that an off-world influence has been at work in the development of homo sapiens. This “Intervention Theory”, for example, is discussed in his ebook. I bring this up, because in hour 1, at 26:58, Young states:
This was a peculiar comment – suggesting that Lloyd wanted to use the Starchild Skull to “prove himself correct” about Intervention theory. Whilst this may even have been true at one time, it was still a peculiar comment – because it came from a woman who stated she had hybrid children! (That is, someone who had been on the receiving end of alien intervention.) Fabregas seems to “join in” with this criticism of Pye, which is also inappropriate, as we shall see.
In reality, it appears Lloyd was more interested in gathering evidence about the Starchild Skull than proving his intervention theory was true. Again, if Melanie Young had personally experienced “interference” by aliens, wouldn’t she, too, want to see her experiences validated by additional evidence?
As was saw above, Lloyd did talk about alien hybrid children – at least until 2009, but then, in 2010, more DNA evidence was given to him. Following this, Lloyd clearly stated that it looked as if the Starchild Skull was not a hybrid. In his lectures, he describes how new DNA evidence changed his conclusions about the “hybrid” scenario. Both Melanie Young and Mel Fabregas entirely failed to mention this (another reason for me writing this article.)
“Don’t Speak Ill of the Dead” – They’re Just After Money…?
This is one of those phrases that, when it is uttered, you can guess that the person making this statement is going to go against their own advice/statement. In hour 1, at 29:35 this peculiar exchange takes place:
This was also extremely peculiar – not just because they were talking about a closed meeting of researchers and were clearly being cagey about the details, but also because Mel Fabregas had already been told, in some detail, about the cost of the DNA tests in his own interview with Matthew Brownstein, conducted shortly after Lloyd’s tragic death. What exactly is the problem Mr Fabregas is trying to solve here?
The “money theme” is returned to several times in this interview, but the way the costs have been incurred or changed over the years is never properly discussed with accurate detail. For a more detailed summary, refer to the already referenced interview with Matthew Brownstein, or the one given on Red Ice Radio by Amy Vickers (whom Melanie Young attacks at several points in the interview. I will leave the listener to make up their own minds about these remarks, once they find them. I would strongly argue that it is Amy’s name that is the least well-known by those who are familiar with the Starchild Skull.)
Money and Ownership of the Skull
Mel Fabregas further criticises Lloyd and the Project’s fundraising efforts at about 30:50 in Hour 1, stating:
Again, why won’t he even mention Matthew Brownstein’s name? Melanie Young does! What is the objective here? Later, Fabregas has to acknowledge, that Melanie Young was involved in the formation of a company. In the 2nd hour, they discuss the formation of the Starchild Project Company/agreement. At 2:55 in another peculiar exchange, they say:
The idea of Melanie Young being forced into an agreement and given a time limit seems ridiculous. In any case, this agreement has now been dissolved! A little later in this discussion, Mel Fabregas again collaborates in trying to paint the original team members in a bad light:
My understanding of this situation, from knowing Lloyd personally is this. When Lloyd was lecturing originally, and also taking the skull around to various experts, he was in possession of the original skull. At some point, however, he realised this wasn’t a good idea – as it became clear it was very unusual and needed to be kept safe. At this point, an expensive replica was made by a company “Bones Clones” and that is what he carried around with him. So, I assume from this, that the real skulls were returned to Melanie Young in about 2002 (as in 1999 + 3 years). So, Mel Fabregas appears to be conspiring with Young to promote the idea that Young did not have possession of the skull for “many years” when in actuality, she had possession of it all the time. If you listen closely, you will hear discussion of the skull’s teeth, which were used for DNA testing. Hence, I am highly sceptical of Young’s story of picking the Skull’s up from Matthew Brownstein in Tampa (and no specific dates are given). The “I am surprised you got it back” statement from Fabregas can only be meant to cast the original project members in a bad light, suggesting they would try to keep possession of the skull against Young’s wishes. This is clearly a ridiculous suggestion, when it seems Young had the skulls all the time!
At around 6:50, Mel Fabregas says:
That is, he suggests, Melanie might not have been given the real one back. Again, Fabregas shows a lack of knowledge here – because the real skulls have had segments of bone cut out of them for the testing – the replicas do not have these cuts. It would be totally clear if Young was given a “replica skull.” However, Young then says:
Wow – why destroy a copy? I have my own copy here and it wasn’t cheap! Young then talks about having a museum quality cast made – but for what purpose, when she already had a good quality copy?
[EDIT: 25 May 2017 - I think she (or someone) probably destroyed the first copy - this was the best one and, I understand, it was made BEFORE portions of bone were removed for DNA testing - and I think the first "Bones Clones" copy was used to make the Brain Casts.]
The theme of money and ownership is returned to several times during the interview, with both of them trying to give the impression that Melanie Young was “taken for a ride” by disingenuous people. This is extremely upsetting. Why on earth would Melanie Young be associated with such people for over 15 years, without any such statements from her? Perhaps we will find part of the answer to this question later.
Age of the Skull
At several points in the interview, Young makes comments about the age of the skull at death. For example at about 41:07 in hour 1, she states:
This statement is false in both parts. The evidence regarding whether the skull was that of an adult or a child is inconclusive. This is clearly stated on Starchild Project.com website in Dr Ted Robinson’s report:
Various experts are named on this page and so Young’s statement about “all the experts” is false. Why is she, as owner of the skull, contradicting what was on the project website for years? Why is Mel Fabregas not familiar with this?
At several points in the interview, there is discussion of DNA evidence – but some of the statements are vague and/or incorrect. The 2nd set of DNA tests were done in 2003 by a company called Trace Genetics (which was later absorbed into another company). Lloyd discussed all of this in his lectures. Young also tries to present the impression that the Starchild Project have hidden data and reports. A couple of statements Young made stand out at 7:57 in hour 2 she states, weirdly:
This statement is also false, as we shall see, and the remarks immediately following are also made to paint Lloyd Pye and Amy Vickers in a bad light. (Fabregas again conspires in making these remarks.)
In hour 2, Young makes further remarks about the 2003 Trace Genetics Report. At 9:21 she states
This is a lie. I found a copy of the Trace Genetics report in the Internet Archive dated June 2004! I cannot believe that Melanie Young was either not given a copy or did not know it had been posted. Here is the link explicitly - http://web.archive.org/web/20040603092133/http://starchildproject.com:80/SCSreport.PDF
Why can’t Mel Fabregas verify the claims of his guests? “Verify” and “Veritas” – you can see the connection, right?
Young states that she has recently, through a person called Chase Kloetzke, initiated more DNA testing and that the Young’s website currently contains results in a report dated 28 March 2017, which states on Page 6:
As stated by Melanie Young in the interview, the mtDNA results agree with those carried out 14 years ago and since the original 2003 tests, nuDNA (nuclear DNA) was recovered in further tests, as Lloyd described in his presentations between 2010 and 2013. Hence, the March 2017 report appears to contain no new information. In the interview, Melanie Young implies that further results were due in April or May 2016 (by my estimation). Mel Fabregas states near the end of hour 2 of the interview that he would record an additional short conversation about the results, if they became available. No discussion was included and neither is anything newer than 28 Mar 2017 posted on Melanie Young’s Website, that I was able to find.
At other points in the interview, both Young and Fabregas question why it’s taken so long for DNA tests to be done and a figure of 20 years (elapsed time) is mentioned by Fabregas (at about the 23 minute mark of hour 2) – disregarding the earlier discussion of the Trace Genetics 2003 test – which is covered in depth in Lloyd’s lectures, as already stated.
Young makes further remarks around the 24:20 mark (Fabregas assists) which appear to be an attempt to discredit the (anonymous) geneticist that has been doing the research for free since 2010.
It’s odd how this guy who “doesn’t know what he is doing” was able to supply Lloyd Pye with detailed screenshots – from the NIH database – that show the DNA sequence matches (or lack thereof). Neither Fabregas nor Young discuss the FoxP2 gene, which was discussed in some detail in Fabregas’ interview with Matthew Brownstein in Dec 2013. As an example, a question Fabregas could have posed would be, “What about the FoxP2 gene that Matthew Brownstein and I discussed in 2013?” This may, perhaps, have elicited a more appropriate response from Young. However, it seems that character assassination was the “order of the day” here.
Discrediting the Original Investigation
It appears one of the objectives of this interview is to discredit the original investigation. It is so hard to believe that this would be the case, as the person being interviewed is the very same one that “kicked off” the whole “quest” back in 1999. However, at the end of hour 1 of the interview, Young makes the following staggering statement:
Now, it is quite easy for anyone to compare the 2 websites and it should, very quickly, become clear that there is a lot of information on www.starchildproject.com and not very much at all on the www.starchildmelanieyoung.com site (so the “mirroring” claim is also bogus). Being slightly facetious, and taking Young’s statement literally, that all information on the Starchild Project website is “old and not true,” doesn’t that mean that she is not really the owner of the skull and has, in fact, never been associated with the skull? (She did say all of the information is “not true”.) So here again, we have a ridiculous statement – she never really states which specific information is untrue and cannot be true. Her sweeping statement if taken literally, discredits her own story/account.
Also, the statement about the www.starchildproject.com website having been changed since the “new investigation” is misleading. A video of Chase Kloetzke discussing the new “investigation” was posted on 6 May 2016. To assess what changes took place on the Starchild Project’s website between, say Jan 2016 and the present time, you can access a version of the website from Jan 2016 in the internet archive. Comparing that to the current version, one can indeed see that the layout/style has been re-vamped, but the information is the same and I would argue that the newer version is clearer and shows a lot of information directly on the homepage (for example, the “Starchild For Dummies” video is the first thing you see now.)
“Maybe It’s Hydrocephalic After All…”
Early on in the investigation, it was deduced this skull was not that of a hydrocephalic. This explanation is the one sceptics and debunkers immediately “go to”. Lloyd Pye, and others (including myself) have gone to some lengths to show that hydrocephaly cannot explain the skull’s shape and form. Indeed, Melanie Young herself, in a 2009 interview with Bill Burns (Blackboard) and others in the “UFO Hunters Team” was asked about Hydrocephaly and confirmed the skull could not have been from a hydrocephaly victim:
So, then, what possessed Melanie Young to say, at 20:26 in hour 2 of the Mel Fabregas interview:
Again here, we see her implying that Lloyd Pye persuaded her. However, she had previously implied or even stated that it was her knowledge of human anatomy – and deformities in infants – which had shown her the form of the skull was not the result of hydrocephaly.
Shortly after this incredible statement, Young discusses Dr Aaron Judkins (an archaeologist who lead a dig for evidence of Noah’s Ark) and states:
This statement is also untrue. Point 8 in Dr Ted Robinson’s report on the Starchild Project website:
Why is Melanie Young making these false claims? Is it me “seeing things” where there is really nothing unusual?
Chase Kloetzke – The New “Investigator”
Several times in the interview, Melanie Young mentions Chase Kloetzke who, as indicated above, has allegedly “taken on” the investigation. In the interview, we learn very little about Kloetzke – certainly, none of her expertise is discussed in any detail, neither are details of why Melanie Young appears to have put so much trust in this person. Kloetzke has a website, where she gives information about her background (and a lot of photos of herself.) Her “bio page” states:
This information seems rather vague to me – is there anything which indicates she has a good knowledge of human anatomy, osteology, genetics or other related fields? So, Melanie Young criticised a geneticist (or virologist) working, gratis, in a lab intermittently for several years – and was supplying real data, but she is uncritical of some person that has recently come on the scene, has disclosed connections to the US military and lacks any obvious credentials to help with the investigation of the Starchild Skull? Is it me?
In this analysis, I have tried here to be dispassionate, but it is difficult here, due the involvement of my late friend Lloyd Pye and because I know about the evidence being discussed. As with 911 evidence, I have spoken about it publicly, many times and the same sort of attacks have been made on the evidence and the “messengers”.
In Nov 2015, I wrote to Melanie Young enclosing a link to a booklet (36 MB download) I had produced to accompany the talk(s) I was giving about the Skull. This booklet was basically a total rip-off of the information either produced by Lloyd Pye or posted on the Starchild Project Website. If you work through this booklet, and through the 2017 Fabregas/Young interview, it should serve to further illustrate how bizarre the whole interview was.
Melanie Young did actually write back to me on 05 Nov 2015 saying:
So, from reviewing this, as I just have, it appears that something happened to Melanie Young after Nov 2015, because her comments in the Mel Fabregas interview don’t seem to tally at all with the Nov. 2015 email, above. To provide further evidence that something serious has happened to her, I found an audio of Melanie Young’s presentation at the 25 Jan 2014, Border UFO conference, in Texas. Here, she is in complete agreement with all the research on the Starchild Project Website and reports on it 100% accurately. She also has trouble describing what happened to Lloyd Pye and her overall demeanour makes her sound like a different person – speaking in a clear and concise manner. This is also the case with her presentation on 21 April 2015 at the Ozark UFO conference, where we can here her accurately discussing the DNA evidence.
I ask the question then, what has caused Melanie Young, in April or May 2017 to lie about Lloyd Pye and smear or attempt to smear other members of the Starchild Project team? Why did Mel Fabregas assist in this process – when he had previously interviewed Matthew Brownstein and had previously met Lloyd Pye. He did not challenge anything Melanie Young said and did not bring up any of the points I have made in this article.
From the discussion, analysis and checking that I have written about above, I conclude here that the Fabregas/Young interview served one or more of the following purposes:
· It was an attempt to discredit the previous investigation work.
· Wind the clock back 18 years, by re-presenting the disproved theory that the Starchild Skull is that of a hydrocephalic child.
· Introduce doubt about the reputation of Lloyd Pye and/or attack him.
· Introduce doubt about the reputation of other Starchild Project team members.
· Focus on funding/money issues, and imply the project was/is all a money-grabbing scam (ironically, some of this discussion is in an interview recording which sits behind a “pay-wall”)
Based on previous analysis of similar issues, I will now switch to some speculation. The skull is now in the possession of Chase Kloetzke, who will either not publish any results which go beyond what was known by 2012, or she will publish results which attempt to contradict or discredit the research done up to that point. The video of Kloetzke, posted on Melanie Young’s site (referenced above), shows no images of the skull, gives no new information and gives no real clue as to what precise expertise Kloetzke has to further the analyse and investigate the skull. Perhaps the overall intent was to encourage those who have worked so hard to reveal the truth about the skull to “give up and walk away.” Didn’t quite work, did it…?
My prediction made in the last paragraph was correct.